Tyler Mumford:  Across a hundred k mostly through the winter, but I don't, I don't know that top end of what it could be. And so that's what I'm, I'm focused on every day is just do chop wood carry water. Let's see what the top end of this stump grinding thing looks like. And I'll, I'll have plenty of time come September, October to reevaluate what I want to do, you know, in the future with this business. But for now, it's like, let's go push and see what it actually can be.

Austin Gray: Welcome back to the Owner op podcast. I'm your host, Austin Gray. In this show, we talk all about starting and growing local service businesses. We are on a mission to help 10,000 people start and grow local service businesses by 2030. And in this episode, Tyler Mumford is joining me for the second time with grind time stump grinding.

He has generated a hundred thousand dollars of revenue since starting his business in August. Simply from scratch, everything is bootstrapped. He didn't take on any investment money. He didn't go take on a ton of debt. He just started. And so if you are looking to start your own service-based business, stump grinding is a really, really good model and it can be done in any market across the us.

Tyler takes a unique approach for reaching out to other tree contractors, so it's a B2B business model. And if you're interested in learning more about the exact business model that he's used to build the business, go back and listen to the first episode with Tyler. It's titled zero to 75,000 in Stump Grinding.

This episode, we're gonna dive further into the costs associated with a full day of stump grinding. Tyler did a $3,500 job earlier this week, and he's going to break down all of the costs on that job for you. He's also gonna share a lot about his mindset to pushing to the a hundred thousand dollars revenue mark. Stick around. I know you're gonna enjoy this episode, and I'm excited to host Tyler once again. 

Austin Gray:  I don't know how to say it, but I am so excited for you. Congrats you. 

Tyler Mumford: Thanks, man.

Austin Gray:  A hundred K. That's so awesome. 

Tyler Mumford: I appreciate it. Man. That was a huge milestone. That was, I was tracking that one pretty close and like I knew it was gonna happen this week and yeah, it was just, it was exciting. I know it's not anything like crazy massive, but it was, it was an awesome milestone. So we we're excited about that over here. Had a huge day yesterday. It's just like, uh, spring. That spring feeling. You've talked about it. Yeah, I talk about it. It's, it's, it's electric. It's the best feeling ever. 

Austin Gray: Do you have spring coming over there?

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Yeah. We're like in that weird spot where, you know, yesterday was 60 degrees and then Tuesday was like a blizzard. You know what I mean? That weird. You, you get it. The mountain towns, like, you probably get it way worse where it's just like. Yeah, you. You just fight it some days it's so nice. And then some days it's back to winter.

Austin Gray: Absolutely. I mean, this morning was one of them, like we sun yesterday, snow last night, snow this morning. I made a call this morning to our foreman and I was like, we're gonna shovel today. And we could get pushback from the property management companies because the sun could come out mid-afternoon. 

Austin Gray: This episode is brought to you by Jobber. Jobber is an all-in-one software management solution for home service and trade businesses. I've been using jobber since day one. When I started Bearclaw, we use it for things like quoting, scheduling, invoicing, and most recently I've been using it for our snowplowing services. I love it for snowplowing because we're able to create a job specific to the client's profile.

And we're able to track visits each time we go out and plow. This is important because each visit is logged in the system and it's ready to send invoices at the end of the month. So I never have to worry about how many times did we plow a specific customer's account because Jobber takes care of all of that for us. If you are interested in an all-in-one solution for managing your home service or trade business, look no further than jobber. They're offering six months at a 20% discount. If you use the link in the description below. 

Austin Gray: and then it could totally melt or it could just keep dumping tonight and we could have, uh, tons of snow and, 

Tyler Mumford: And you just that weird stretch of year, you bill those guys the same way. Whether like, you know what I mean? Sun comes out, it's just like, yeah, we shoveled. So you that, that's kind of how you bill for snow, right?

Austin Gray:  It's all time and material. Yeah. So we just have an hourly rate that we send, send people out, but this is just a really, really challenging time. 'cause it's like you want to value the clients. Like, if we didn't need to shovel, we don't need to be out there. Right. 

Tyler Mumford: Totally. 

Austin Gray: That's, that's the reality. Like we're in this game for the long haul. We don't wanna be billing when we don't need to. Yeah. At the same time though, when we get wet heavy snow, we need to make sure to get that off so that if it does come tonight again and wet heavy snow, our shovel guys aren't there. Like actually like moving tons and tons of snow. Anyway, I don't wanna dive into that. I wanna focus on you this episode because a hundred K is worth celebrating. 

Tyler Mumford: Thanks. Appreciate it. 

Austin Gray: Can you, for listeners who did not listen to the first episode, can you just give us the quick background as to, to what you've been up to and 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah.

Austin Gray: Business that you started and have been working on? 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, started the business in August of last year. August 3rd was my first stump grinding service. Heard the idea on a podcast. I was in tech before that on the sales side, started a stump grinding business. Slowly have. I, I, scale isn't the right word I guess 'cause I'm still the only employee.

But slowly have, have built the, the revenue and the demand completely B2B. So through tree landscape, concrete fence companies, I sub for them whenever they come across a stump they don't want to deal with, that's about 90% of my revenue and have slowly built that up to now, you know, crossing the a hundred K point and it's, what is it, March 22nd.

So about seven and a half months, I believe to get to a hundred k. Most of those months we're in the off season. So we're really excited about spring, summer where we can go with it. And we have like some rock solid partnerships and new partnerships. We think it could, it could get pretty big, but it, it's, it's hard to tell in B2B 'cause you don't always know what's coming down the pipe as a sub. So regardless, yeah, that's, that's kinda the background. And that's, that's where we're at. We just crossed that milestone two days ago, so 

Austin Gray: This is incredible and I'm so excited to have you back on. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah man. 

Austin Gray: People have been listening to that first episode like crazy and. They, they've asked for you to be back on, so I want to focus this episode on some of those jobs and some of those expenses as well.

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: One of your latest ones, you said, Hey, I had a $3,500 day and I will break down the expenses tomorrow, and so today is tomorrow. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. 

Austin Gray: For listeners who have not listened to the first episode, you can get Tyler's full story. In the first stump grinding episode, we had it titled zero to 75K, starting a Stump Grinding Business.

Austin Gray: This episode we're gonna talk about hitting a hundred K and breaking down further into the weeds of the business model so that you host yesterday. I'll pull it up here, and you probably know it off the top of your head, but it said something along the lines of like, I had a 3,500 day, $3,500 day.

Tyler Mumford: Here's how it went. I'll break down my expenses.

Austin Gray: Can you take us through it? 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Yeah. So let's go through it. And, and by the way, just a quick plug on your podcast, that last episode, anytime anyone slides in the dms and like asks about starting a stop grinding business, I just send 'em that episode 'cause it's pretty thorough. I'm like, you have to at least get started. I didn't, I've done, I'm not pulling any punches on these episodes. I don't really believe in, you know, hiding too many secrets. If, if you want to try it in Utah, I will crush you. If you wanna try it elsewhere, I will help you, but yes. 

Austin Gray: Yeah. Love it. I love it., 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, a hundred percent. So go back to that one. That's what I send to everyone that asks, but yeah, so yesterday, three $3,500 job, it was about, what do we, it was about 12 big stumps. The reason it was so expensive or, or, or such a big job was because they wanted, it was a concrete landscape, landscape company. They wanted us to haul everything and bring back all the mulch, pit chips back to, uh, grade, just so that they could work the, they could do the landscaping on top of it.

So it was pretty straightforward job. We had, let's call it, I spent. So I had a tank of of, of stump grinder diesel. So we're talking 15 to 20 bucks. It was pretty close to me. So if you want to talk truck gas we're, it, were probably 10 bucks of truck gas. So 25 bucks there. I broke three or four stump grinding teeth. So there's teeth on the wheel. Those, those are what break. People always ask me how often I replace the cutting wheel. You don't replace the cutting wheel, you just replace the teeth. Those are what breaks. So I broke like three or four of those. Let's call that 40 bucks just when you hit a big rock or whatever.

It just kind of happens. And then, so what are we at 65 bucks there. I paid someone to help me shovel. Uh, it was a sucky day for him, so I, I, I paid him. This is actually my first time I've ever paid someone. So that was exciting. But he just shoveled behind me all day. So I paid him a day rate. I paid him 140 bucks. And then I really wanted to get it done yesterday, and I had a short day. I had to get outta there at like three or four. So I told him, Hey, if we get it done by three or four, I'll pay 200 bucks, just flat rate. So let's just, let's just go. And so he worked harder because I paid him that flip flat rate with a bonus.

I, I probably paid too much, but regardless, paid him 200 bucks. So what are we at? Like 2 2 2 80, 2 65, 2 80. And then there's overhead expenses. So overhead on everything. You would probably be more familiar with like how to break out overhead expenses, you know, down to the day. But on the month I pay. Nine 90 for my stump grinder.

Pay about 200 bucks for my trailer, 500 bucks for my truck. And then there's some upkeep expenses on all of those things. But they're, they're, they're not crazy. It's oil change on the truck. It's, you know, new tires on the truck when you need it, and every once in a while getting the stump grinder serviced or the hydraulic leak or whatever, just a few, few little things here and there.

They don't add up to a ton though. So that's kind of how it breaks out to the, you could split that into, I don't know, 20 working days, 23 working days. And that would be your overhead on the day yesterday. So, I mean, my overhead for yesterday was at definitely less than, I don't know, three, 400 bucks. So, so yeah, that, that's kind of all of my costs right there wrapped in, so probably under four to $500 a cost. I was doing labor, so paying myself is probably a cost as well. But yeah, it's kind of one of those days that covered. Not gonna lie. It covered all the overhead for my whole month yesterday. So on pretty much everything that's insurance. It's, you know, everything. So it's awesome. 

Austin Gray: It's incredible. I love it. I love the hustle. I love the grit. I love the fact that you're just making it happen. And look, I'm, I want you to know, and I want you to hear, hear me out on this, like I'm literally your biggest fan dude watching it from afar because there is nothing that is more exciting than just seeing somebody with your attitude and your willingness to show up and just figure it out and get it done. I mean, this is what America was built on. And I personally feel like we'd lost a lot of that mindset somewhere along the lines. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, 

Austin Gray: Baby boomers had it. Yeah. Some millennials, very few millennials have it. I think. And even fewer Gen Z have it. And I, and I know I probably sound like a broken record, right? Like the you, you probably get this in every generation, but I think the whole premise of this podcast and why I started was based on this principle that if you're willing to do what Tyler is doing right now, there are opportunities in every single market for any service that you want to pick. If you just take this mindset that Tyler has taken and it's like, I'm just gonna figure out the process, I'm gonna figure out my pricing, and I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna work really hard and I'm gonna commit to delivering five star service, like, pick your service. It doesn't really matter what the business model is. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. And by the way, you're gonna make mistakes. I, I just tweeted about this right before we got on. I said, Hey, this lady, there was a job, you commented on her earlier this week. I had like two feet of snow on top of this stump. So I dug it up for her 'cause she's like, dude, we have to finish, we have to start this remodel.

And I was like, all right, whatever. Usually I would just be like, dude, I'll, I'll, I'll get back out here next week, whatever. 'cause stumps usually don't have a lot of time, time sensitivity, if you will. So anyways, did a solid for, dug out a bunch of snow, did the job, it was muddy, you know, all the, all the classic.

And then I get a text from her last night. She's like, Hey, you missed a spot. And I was like, oh my goodness. And so we're going, right? But right back up there, right after this, this podcast finishes on a Saturday morning and, and getting the job done, right. That's, that also comes with that, you know, small business ownership.

It's not all perfect, but like people over. Analyze the mistakes that could happen. Like, that's pretty much the biggest mistakes that I make nowadays, is I miss a route or I miss a spot and I just go back there. I, I make it right with the customer. I finish the job. Yeah. It sucks. I spend two hours that I didn't need to spend going back up there, but it's like, if that's the worst thing that could happen in my week, and I'm, you know, I, I love everything else that I do.

It's, it's a pretty, pretty good trade off. And, and, yeah. Oh, when I first started, I was like, dude, what if I mess up this? What if I mess, mess up X, y, z Dude, stumps in a yard are not, there's not a ton you can mess up. Definitely other business models where you can mess up more. But it's like, dude, just, just go and, and you'll figure out the few things that you stay away from so you don't mess up on those things. And then when you do, you make it right. And it's not that big of a deal. It's just, it happens. I'm sure you get calls all the time about certain pieces of snow removal or whatever, and you just go back and you fix it and you, you keep moving. It's not that big a deal. 

Austin Gray: This episode is brought to you by Jobber. Jobber is an all-in-one software management solution for home service and trade businesses. I've been using jobber since day one when I started Bearclaw. We use it for things like quoting, scheduling, invoicing, and most recently I've been using it for our snowplowing services. I love it for snowplowing because we're able to create a job specific to the client's profile, and we're able to track visits each time we go out and plow.

This is important because each visit is logged in the system and it's ready to send invoices at the end of the month, so I never have to worry about how many times did we plow a specific customer's account, because Jobber takes care of all of that for us. If you are interested in an all-in-one solution for managing your home service or trade business, look no further than jobber. They're offering six months at a 20% discount if you use the link in the description below.

Austin Gray:  I've just learned that like one in every 30 accounts are gonna be really hard. Yeah. And they're gonna be really challenging and there are gonna be a lot of things that go wrong. Yeah. And what I believe is important is exactly what you just said. It's not the fact that the mistake is made or that it's not exactly how the customer wanted it. What's important is how you respond to that as a business owner. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. 

Austin Gray: And I believe that is what sets people like yourself above what other people are willing to do. 'cause some people would just move on the next and push it aside and just not text them back. Like there are people out, plenty of people out there who would do that. You could block her number.

Tyler Mumford:  I I, and I could block her number and she would probably never be able to reach me. That's, that's the honest, like Yeah. If you think about it, like you're, yeah, I could do that. And I thought about it, but you don't, you don't do that.

Austin Gray: That's right. That's right. Especially when you're trying to build a business and your reputation is everything. You literally get one shot at the Yeah. At the reputation. And so, totally. I also, I see it as an opportunity, and I know you do as well. This is an opportunity to showcase the level of service that I personally am willing to, to deliver to my customers by showing up 

Tyler Mumford: Yep.

Austin Gray: Promptly answering their resp, their, their request, and then just getting it done. And oftentimes that will lead to, lead to, I I could, I'll send you one after this. We had a problem account, very challenging snowplow account. The guy specifically wants it done different ways and it's just like different than how we would approach it as an operator, but whatever. Sometimes you get customers like that, right? 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. 

Austin Gray: We just kept showing up and kept listening to his requests and kept saying, yes, sir, we'll do it. And with three iterations, we're now to the point to where we've got it so efficient based on his request, and he left us the most incredible five star review.

Tyler Mumford: Let's go. Yes. Yep. 

Austin Gray: And so I just want to, to hammer home that like those problems or those requests. For any listeners can be opportunities to use your solutions to turn into five star reviews. A hundred percent. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. And she didn't, she, I, I texted her 'cause she wasn't home after I did the job the first time, and so she hasn't left a review yet. So You bet I'm gonna ask. That's my one ask this morning when I get up there and do the job. Right. Hey, can you please, please leave a review? You know, if you, if you felt like I, I responded well to it and, and all that good stuff. So, 

Austin Gray: And absolutely. And I even encourage customers to just like, tell about your real experience.Like, yes, 

Tyler Mumford: A hundred percent 

Austin Gray: Mistakes are gonna happen. Like I accidentally missed the spot. But what's important to me is that I wanna showcase that I responded quickly showed up, solve your problem. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. Absolutely. No, exactly. 

Austin Gray: And it's a great like, real time experience for people reading those reviews.

Tyler Mumford: Yep. 

Austin Gray: I wanna come back to the numbers here. 

Tyler Mumford: Okay. Okay. Yep.

Austin Gray: So do you have a total in your head? I was trying to take notes here. 

Tyler Mumford: Yes. So total of expenses? 

Austin Gray: total of cost of goods, expenses. Let's go back through it on 

Tyler Mumford: Yesterday's job, so 65 truck was 40 TFA is, 40 bucks gas, let's call it 30, just to make it round and, and probably a little higher than it actually was diesel. Diesel for the grinder. Gas for my truck. 

Austin Gray: So truck gas was, 

Tyler Mumford: We call it 15 bucks yesterday and then 15 for diesel grinder. 

Austin Gray: Okay. So, okay. Is that, I see where you're going with that. And then shoveling labor 200. 

Tyler Mumford: Shoveling Labor two, 200 bucks. Yep. 

Austin Gray: Anything else?

Tyler Mumford:  Yesterday, like yesterday specifically, just trying to make sure I'm right on this and not being dishonest. Now there wasn't really, I didn't pay dump fees 'cause I work with a landscape yard that was free. So yeah, I, there's a small hydraulic leak that I'm gonna have to change an O-ring on, you know what I mean? So that's a little bit of, of my labor. There we call it, you know, 20 bucks and changing an O-ring. That's literally it though for yesterday. 

Austin Gray: Sure, sure. Okay, so why don't we break down your time on the job. Could you start us through the very beginning of whenever you woke up and when you started thinking about the job, all the way from like coordination to sending texts, to coordinating your labor, to thinking through like the address, the logistics, lining up your equipment, all of that stuff, and then going to the job and then take us through the whole day as to when you got home.

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, and 15 bucks for my lunch. There you go. We have to have that in CAA Goods. Yeah. So yeah, yesterday woke up at, I don't know, I woke up at six 30, pretty much started thinking about it right away. I got ready, got in the truck. I was in my truck at probably like 7 15, 7 30. Um, went and picked up the grinder, grabbed a breakfast burrito from Maverick Maverick's, best for the quick little breakfast burrito in the morning, and yeah, was over there by eight.

Started grinding at eight. Literally had the grinder running like eight, 10. And then we were grinding all the way until the machine ran until probably one, so like four or five hours were pretty consistent running the machine. And then shovel guy showed up at about 9 30, 10. And then, yeah, we finished the job.

We were off the property at 3 45 and then. We had to go, I had to go drive to the landscape yard to dump mulch. It took forever because I had to put my machine on top of the mulch and then kind of ramp it down off before I dumped, you know? So it, the logistics on that took a while. By the time I was actually home, like not thinking about the job anymore, it was about five 20 by the time I dropped my stuff back at the yard, locked it all up. And, and that's, I didn't even like clean it or do anything, do do any of that stuff that I'll probably do this morning. So it was a, it was a full day. We're talking seven to five basically.

Austin Gray: And you were up at six 30? 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Six 30. Yeah. So six 30 to five. Yeah. 

Austin Gray: So, yeah, to your point, did what, did you stop for lunch or did y'all break at all?

Tyler Mumford: I grabbed lunch. I actually didn't break. I grabbed lunch, I grabbed a piece of pizza on the way from the, the, the yard to, or sorry, from the, the house to the landscaping yard. So I mean, 10 minutes for that. But. 

Austin Gray: Okay, so realistically, like we could, we could say 11 hour day. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. For your, for, for your owner's labor. And then I, I mean, I came home and answered emails and, uh, did stuff after that too. So I, it never stops. But for that job specifically, yeah, 11 hours probably. 

Austin Gray: So this is one thing that a lot of people, when I, when I was tweeting early on, like similar job type posts that a lot of people chimed in, they're like, Hey, you need to make sure that you're accounting for the labor that you are doing so that you have a real time cost of goods sold. And so you've got 11 hours in there. What could you pay somebody else to do?

Tyler Mumford: I think you could pay 'em like 20 bucks an hour. Like in a, you'd get a decent guy probably. Yeah. Is that high, do you think? 

Austin Gray: Low in my mind. 

Tyler Mumford: Okay. Yeah, I think I, I'm in with a few good circles of, of college kids out here and down south from our, our town here down south. It gets like pretty country pretty fast. So you got some pretty handy kids that are willing to work and work hard. That was the Shoveler kid just from a town south of me, and he was just like, yeah. He showed up and just started ripping the shuffle for it. Didn't, didn't stop the whole time he was, so, yeah. Anyway, so I think 20, I mean, if I, if I trained a guy and had him like very comfortable doing everything with the stump grinder, I, I'd be willing to pay him like 25, 30. 

Austin Gray: Yeah, that's great. I don't think go wrong, but they're starting 'em at 25 at all. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Yeah, that's how I do it. Once I start hiring, I've already thought start him at a certain rate and then have him climb as he can do everything himself. Like, hey, your whole goal is to never call me at once. You can, once you can do everything yourself and really not call me much like for X, Y, Z, you know, we'll bump you up five bucks an hour, whatever. 

Austin Gray: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. That's incredible. So, you know, let's say your time was 25, 25 per hour. I'm also gonna send you a post. Have you, do you follow Blue collar Andy on Instagram? 

Tyler Mumford:  Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Okay. 

Austin Gray: He's an excavation guy. I've had him on the podcast and we just published his episode last week. I believe he's really, really good at dialing in his number, so I'm gonna send you a on that because 

Tyler Mumford: Okay. 

Austin Gray: He breaks down the, the true cost of labor if you W2 somebody, and that's a post I wish I would've had early on. So understand exactly how much per hour it costs. 

Tyler Mumford: Because there's all the taxes on top of it, right? And yeah, and payroll stuff and yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I would love that. I need, that's on my to-do list is actually dial in. I need to know exactly what it costs me to, to like turn the key on the grinder. You've talked about this before, what it costs to turn the key on the machine. I don't actually have that. I have rough ideas and I know I'm not going bankrupt, so I'm, I'm in a decent spot, but like, I need to know what it costs for me to drive my truck to the next town and, and turn the key and do all those different things. So there's a few things that I just, I, I'm not there yet, but yeah,

Austin Gray: Of course. And like, I, I still have stuff to work on internally in my business as well. Yeah, I mean, you've probably heard, heard me talk about it on the podcast before. It's like, man, if you can just like push in the early days and do exactly what you're doing and push prices out there and gauge the market, like what, what is the 'cause it doesn't really matter if you know all your costs and then you like go price everything accordingly, but the market won't pay it.

If you don't have a business, right, like, God, I think it, it's super important to do what you're doing and go test what the market's willing to pay. Like you just, yeah, you broke down the cost per inch in the stump for the stump in the first episode. So listeners, if you want the pricing model, go back and listen to the first episode, but you're basically testing and validating what the market will pay, and then now it's like you can refine and spend a little bit of extra time figuring out those numbers. And, dude, go ahead.

Tyler Mumford: No, I was just on that. I, I think that's so key. Like I, once again, we don't want to keep, we. Hammering on the same thing, but like the finance guys is like, oh, what's your cost per hour? And what is, you know, you know, what is your overhead cost? How are you gonna scale this thing? Like what all these things.

And it's like, dude, I get that. I am not perfect at business. And I know, I know. I need to know all those numbers. I, I will get there and I'll tell you to your face that I don't know those numbers, but I can tell you right now, yesterday. I'm not going bankrupt from what happened yesterday. It was awesome. I know my costs are not that high.

I didn't know yesterday paid pretty much all of my overhead. So all the other of the other 25 days of the month or 20 days of the month, you know, I'm, I'm making okay money. We're doing okay and I will keep improving 'cause I have that mindset. But yeah, I'm not, I'm not sitting here this morning like, how can I type on my computer to scale?

It's like, dude, I'm gonna go out and do jobs to scale and then once I can't do, physically cannot do the amount of jobs I need to do, we will scale and we'll hire crews and we will do the, the right thing. But I, I haven't got that point yet. This week I got to that point, but next week it's looking kinda light.

So, you know, I need to get back on my horse and, and email and text people and do all the things that I've been doing. So anyways, that, that's a little rant, but that's, that's, you know, I'm, I'm. In one hand, I want to improve and get better as a business owner. And in the other hand, it's like, dude, don't put the cart before the horse. Just go get jobs first. And then you, your, your, your, your, your p and l's gonna look okay, even if you make a few mistakes on, you know, a few different things.

Austin Gray:  I love it. I love that mindset so much. I can tell you're getting fired up there too. Yeah, it fires me up too. I'm like, well, dude, like some, some people just sit in the office all day and overly analyze the crap out of everything, and like, why they shouldn't take action. Whereas you, you're like, dude, I just heard this thing on a podcast and I just went and rented the freaking stump grinder and started grinding stumps and the like, threw some pricing out there and people were paying it. And then I like kept increasing probably here and there, and I'll hit a threshold and figure out like what, what the market's willing to pay.

But the, the reality is, and you, I think you hammered on this in that first episode, like all you're really sacrificing is your time. And there are so many, like, I think this is why like the whole. You know, four hour work week, Tim Ferris stuff is like, you know, value your time. Like your time is so valuable. It's gotta be, it's like you kind of have to put your ego aside. Well, you do have to put your ego aside in the beginning. It's like, I'm just a blue collar labor guy. That's all I'm doing right now. It's all I'm doing. And then yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm doing the sales as well and I'm doing the project management coordination, but I'm not above it to go just do the work so that I can figure this bus business model out.

Tyler Mumford: Exactly. And when I'm on the grinder all day, I'm thinking about it. And then I come home at night and I do things to improve on the actual business side. Like, I, I am, you know, I'm not just a blue collar laborer and I won't just sit just doing that, but that I can do it right now. And so why not do it? Like, because, you know, I know if I'm doing the labor, money's gonna keep coming into the bank account and we, we'll, we'll be in a good, in a better spot than if I was just sitting in an office doing stuff. So I, I, yeah, I totally agree. And it's, it's the, the biggest issue and in an early stage business is lack of business to do things. So that, that, that's the, I, in my opinion, the very first hurdle you have to overcome is just overcome the lack of business. And then everything else will fall into place when you have too much business to, to deal with. Like, that's a good problem to, to go figure out. 

Austin Gray: So no doubt about it. So, diving back into the numbers here. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, sorry, sorry. 

Austin Gray: No, no, no. All good. I, I get on the rants too 'cause I, I love them, I love talking mindset, but, uh, I saw Sean Gorum chime in on your post last night. 

Tyler Mumford: He's somebody who I re, I respect. 

Austin Gray: Great. 

Tyler Mumford: I like him a lot. 

Austin Gray: Been in our shoes and built businesses from startup in the trades. He's been so kind to me. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. 

Austin Gray: He's a good dude. I saw him chime in and just use the round number 30 $30 an hour. Yeah. And, and I think that's probably a good starting point. I, I think your true cost once you grow will, will be more than that. After you go dive into that post that I was mentioning with, with the blue collar Andy guy 

Tyler Mumford: Uhhuh.

Austin Gray: Let's just use 30 for round numbers. So 30 times 11. So your labor cost on that was $330. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep, that sounds right. 

Austin Gray: So you've got your labor at three 30, shoveling, labor at 200. You've got, so like five 30 diesel at 15. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. 

Austin Gray: You've got truck gas at 15, and then teeth at 40. So $600 in cost of good sold. Does that sound right?

Tyler Mumford: Sounds about right. Yeah. 

Austin Gray: So that's a really good gross, gross profit margin. 

Tyler Mumford: What are we at? Like I don't wanna do the math, I don't want to expose myself by trying to do that remote. 

Austin Gray: I know, I'm trying, I'm trying to do run numbers over here as well, but so your, I want, I want to get the whole picture here. Your overhead, you mentioned. 

Tyler Mumford: Yes. 

Austin Gray: Let's go go through those monthly expenses again. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, let's do it. Grinder payment is nine 90. I don't know how that all fits in. Like do I count my down payment into overhead expenses? Do I count just what I pay per month? How does that work? 

Austin Gray: You and me both are figuring all this out. So if there's anybody on the podcast, like, and I had, I had that finance guy who runs an excavation, equip, uh, excavation business on down from Austin, Texas. That one was really good and I sat there and listened a lot. 'cause he knows everything down to the penny. Let's just go through your expenses here.

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. So nine 90 a month for the grinder, let's just call that a thousand. Just even for the tech grinder, a thousand bucks on the payment. My truck payment is 500 flat. 

Austin Gray: Okay. 

Tyler Mumford: My trailer payment is 175, and then, so those are overhead insurance. I pay, I think I pay 350 total in insurance if that's for auto and liability, that's gonna go up once I hire someone. But, and then 

Austin Gray: You said how much of is per month? 

Tyler Mumford: 350. 

Austin Gray: 350. Yeah, that's, that covers your general liability and your trip, your audio. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: Wow, that's great. 

Tyler Mumford: I got a guy, if anyone is interested. I He's a friend. Yeah. I'll connect you with him. I, I, I don't, I have, I, I've heard many times that that's really low and I think I'm covered on everything like the, everything looks good on it, so. Okay. And then what else do I have overhead? Let's softwares, just random softwares that I use for like cold email, all that different stuff. Probably all totals. All of my softwares is like 200 bucks. 

Austin Gray: Okay. 

Tyler Mumford: And then, you know, if we, how niche do we wanna get? Do we want to go into like oil changes, you know, tire rotations, things like that too?

Austin Gray: Well, I just lump all that into repairs and maintenance. 

Tyler Mumford: Okay. Repairs and maintenance will cut, will include the grinder in repairs and maintenance. Let's just call it 200 bucks a month. And that's probably a little high. 

Austin Gray: Okay, so we got 1000 plus for stump grinder plus 500 for your truck payment. Plus 175 for your trailer payment plus 350 for insurance, plus 200 for the software, plus 200 for repairs and maintenance. So that's 2425, $2,425 in just base overhead. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Oh, should I say SEO? I pay like 300 bucks for someone to host my website. Do some SEO. Okay for me. Let's do that. And then I paid by three per month. 

Austin Gray: 300 per month, and that covers website and SEO hosting on everything, hosting and everything. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. And then another company, let's call it 300 per month for some LSA ads that I'm testing that just started trying those. So yeah, that's, I'm just trying, I'm, I'm thinking through everything, just making sure we're being honest here. Like it's, that's, I'm sure you can get niche, like I bought my laptop and stuff, but like, you know, that you throw another a hundred, 150 bucks in for like random supplies. Oh, teeth is expensive. I, I just paid like 600 bucks just to get a ton of teeth for the season. So I mean, you probably 150 bucks a month just for teeth. Oh, wow. 

Austin Gray: Okay. All right. Yeah. And I think these are like on, on the high end, right? 

Tyler Mumford: High for right out where you're at. I'm just trying to be as honest as possible. Sure, so I appreciate that. Don't I? I, I do not. I. I know I'm always, and, and certain people are right when they're like, I, I've tweeted about a big day. And they're like, isn't that revenue? And you're like, yes, you're exactly right. That is revenue. And it's a big revenue day, which we're excited about, but there are, there are costs underlying all this.

Austin Gray: Yeah. Yeah. And, and then like the people who are blasting revenue, I'm like, there, there probably the people who can't drive revenue. Like, sorry, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll stay off my soapbox here. Yeah. But it's like the people who are always gonna blast, the people who talk about revenue are the people who can't go drive revenue.

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: So it's like you've already, you, you don't have a business. You can't even talk profit until you can go drive revenue. So 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: Well, 

Tyler Mumford: Also, also, I have 280 characters in a tweet. So like, if you wanna hop on a phone call with me, I will tell you every single piece of cost that I have, I, I can't really, you know what I mean? It's a tweet, dude, I'm putting out, I'll just put my revenue number and then how the day went. And you can glean from there, you know, how, how I'm doing. But there are costs.

Austin Gray:  Yes, of course. You know. I'm gonna get blasted for this right here, but it's like, figure out how to go drive revenue and then you can figure out profit after that. So blast me, don't blast Tyler. 

Tyler Mumford: Blast is bold. I don't care. It's fine. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll clap back at you if you, if you tweet me. That's fun. It's fun. 

Austin Gray: All right. 3175. I have learned though, that like different people are wired different ways, right? 

Tyler Mumford: Oh, yeah. 

Austin Gray: Know this about myself. I'm a revenue driver. You're probably a revenue driver too, based on what you're doing. Other people can sit behind the computer all day and crunch these numbers and, well, 

Tyler Mumford: and by the way, I'm gonna need people like that to help with some bookkeeping soon and likes different things. Uh, totally. The strengths are, are definitely a thing. Just don't, don't bash me in my strength 'cause I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. 

Austin Gray: Yeah, you're doing great. All right. 3175 in monthly, just ongoing costs. So call it, fuck it. This under loosely held overhead, right? Like all these numbers are, are, are rough. So listeners who are listening to that, to Tyler's trying to shoot high so that you have an accurate depiction. If you do decide to go do this in your own market, so $3,175 in overhead. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: And then you've got, what did we say for your total cost of good sold was 600. 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. 

Austin Gray: So so you basically close like you Yeah. You almost covered your whole Yeah. That's how it felt. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: That exactly month of overhead plus your day of cost of goods sold to do that job.

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

Austin Gray: And how many more days do you have left in the month? 

Tyler Mumford: Oh, we got five more days next week. So yeah, next week's gonna be awesome. And I mean, I, I had revenue before that. What? So my, to be honest, all of my overhead and all that stuff was already paid for going into yesterday. But it's nice to think yesterday I paid for another month of it, you know what I mean? So like, hey, that's, that's my April or whatever. I, you just gamify things in your head is how I do it. Every, every, sometimes I'm sitting in my truck, you know, and just rattle 250, $250 jobs that are smaller. And I'm like, all right, that was my insurance. That was my SEO That was, you know what I mean? And by the end of the day, I'm like, dude, all my expenses are paid. I don't know. I just gamify it and, and, and playing dumb games in my head.

Austin Gray:  I think they're great games, so, and

Tyler Mumford:  I hear the same thing. 

Austin Gray: Yeah. I want to, I want to talk about too, just momentum, right? It's like whenever you can get those little small wins in your head 

Tyler Mumford: Yep.

Austin Gray: Like how much does that drive you for the next one? 

Tyler Mumford: Oh man, is I, I think that's so key is like your, your mindset on stuff. And that's why the winter months are hard when you run a business like this is because the momentum is just few and far between. I'm about a day or two a week, so like, your week just doesn't, and I'm doing cold outreach, I'm doing things for the business on other days, but it just doesn't feel like you, are you, we've talked about this like feeling like you're working hard is a, is a thing and it's different for everyone.

But for me, like my feeling like I'm working hard is I'm out, I'm dirty, I'm sweating, I'm, I'm getting these jobs done. Like, and I'm gonna have to figure that out as I scale because maybe I won't be doing every single, you know, job. So I have to have to free wire my mindset there on like, what feels like it's working hard.

But motivation and like momentum are so key. 'cause especially when, when you, when you first start. Because if you, if you get excited about a business idea, uh, and I've done this a hundred times before I ever started on sum grinding, and you're like, all right, dude, I, you start talking with chat GPT about it, whatever your process is, you're looking it up on Google.

You're looking up other companies that do it. You know, I start following people on Instagram that, on good Instagram accounts on it, DMing those people. Uh, you need to do as much as you can upfront so that momentum doesn't wane. And so like, I'll, I'll just go back to the when I first started Stump Grinding, or when I heard the podcast on July 11th, from there to August 3rd, I had a company basically, I had like jobs and like I had a company and that all happened in two to three weeks.

And I think if it took longer, I think I would've fell off the idea 'cause winter was coming or, you know, whatever. I would've just been like, dude, I don't know, like this, I don't know if this is a great idea, but because I, I, I just stack days of momentum for this. So what it, what it really looked like is, I heard the idea on like July 11th. July 12th, I pulled a list of, of tree companies in Boise, Idaho to go reach out to.

We talked about this. I'd reached out to those people literally the day after I heard the podcast started getting texts back that people wanted me to go grind stumps. I wasn't in Boise, but I was like, oh, wow, this is legit, like this would actually work. So now I have some momentum in my head of like, this isn't just a podcast idea, this is a valid idea.

So momentum, right? Then I'm going into the dealership, like, dude, can I get financing on one of these things? And the guy's like, yeah, dude, of course. Like there's the bunch of different companies that can help you out. I know you don't have a business. I'm like, okay, momentum, you know, I go home, I reach out to, I reach out to like 20 different stump grinders in different CI or uh, different states who maybe would be willing to talk to me.

Two or three were willing to jump on the phone. Had like five or six things that they told me that, once again, pushed momentum. Found a Facebook group of stump grinders, started learning from those guys, push momentum, you know what I mean? And then figured out where to get a trailer, where to get my truck from, and all those things just stacked. And by August 3rd, I was just running like, it was just, this is what we're doing every day is we're just figuring out how to get stump jobs. Because right after I heard that podcast, you know what I mean? We went and then we checked things off, checked things off, checked things off. And then I had my first job. Then I had my second job the Monday after that Saturday. Like it just, and it went and it, I did not let it slow. Uh, and I've tried not to let it slow the whole time. And that's kind of where it's what, what got me where it's at. If, if that makes sense. 

Austin Gray: It makes complete sense. And I couldn't agree with you more. Like my, my story was very similar to yours. It's like the, the dopamine that you get from completing that job. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah.

Austin Gray: And whenever that first customer pays. Just leads to the next, I mean, I, I'm curious to hear like whenever you get, whenever you get done with a job or whenever you get paid, like how does that feel?

Tyler Mumford: Dude, it's, it's the best. It's, and it's not just 'cause of the money part. I don't, I don't know how to explain it. Like, it's not like a scrooge, like I'm just trying to watch my bank account go up. I have a ritual every time that that money hits the Chase account. I have a few different Chase accounts we've talked about.

I think me and you have gone back and forth on X about, what's it called? Profit First. So I have all my bank accounts set up for the profit first way. Um, and so every time the the money hits my income account, I go in there and I split it up into my percentages of my income, my, my, my operation expenses, taxes, and profit. And that's what I do every time. So I like really get a, like, feel and see the money in my bank account, if that makes sense. It sounds a little weird and like a little woo woo, but I actually like want to, like, every single time it comes in, I want to do that because it's just like. It reminds me of like what that feeling feels like now that I'm done doing a good job for that customer and I want to go get it again.

And I just keep stacking. And some days I do that, you know, twice in a day. 'cause I, I had two different big, you know, deposits come in or whatever. Um, but it, that's, that's an exciting feeling and it should be exciting. Like that's why we're doing this. I don't have a passion for ripping stumps outta the ground. I actually do like it, but it's not, I don't like wake up on a free Saturday thinking about stump grinding. But I, I, yeah, that's why we're doing it is, is for the money and what the money can provide for my family in the future. 

Austin Gray: This episode is brought to you by dialed in bookkeeping. Ben and his team provide bookkeeping services, job costing reports, and accurate financial information for the home services industry. If you're looking to keep your books up to date, visit dialed in bookkeeping.com/owr ops. When you use this specific landing page, you'll get your first three months 50% off. 

Tyler Mumford: So yeah, you should enjoy that part. 

Austin Gray: Absolutely. Absolutely. And as a former athlete 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah.

Austin Gray:  And as a current coach, 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: It's a score scoreboard, right?

Tyler Mumford: It is. It is. Yes. And you're not competing with anybody else. No. It's just the competition with yourself. A hundred percent. That's what's the beautiful thing about it is when I get that money in the bank account, it's not, I didn't steal it from someone. I, no one has less money be, well I guess the customer technically has less money, but they have a great service that was provided them, so I, I don't consider them like having less money. No one loses in the situation. It's actually, if you do it well, everyone wins. So it's really fun to feel good about it because all parties are winning. 

Austin Gray: All parties are winning because that money would have changed hands. Either way, regardless, 

Tyler Mumford: A hundred percent, yes, 

Austin Gray: That person would have paid somebody to do that service. And if your job, and if your commitment is to deliver the absolute best service possible, like I, I've just been thinking about this a lot and I'm, I'm curious to dive deeper on this and get your thoughts, but I think that's why this like, it feels so good actually providing a service where you have to physically do something in order to get paid to do so.

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: And there's nothing better than showing up where it's like a 80-year-old lady and she doesn't get ar around that great. And she requests you to shoot, requested us to shovel that area. Like, I will get out of the truck every single time and shovel that driveway for her because it feels like you're doing the right thing and actually helping somebody experience a better life for themselves. Do you have that feeling as well? 

Tyler Mumford: A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred. I, I just feel, and mine's not, you know, it might not be as tangible like a stump in the back right corner of your yard. It, you know, is probably not affecting the, uh, the old lady's quality of life as much as snow and the walkway. But for me it just, yeah, having something tangibly connected to those two things, to the money where before it was like, it, the, the way I type on a keyboard or, or, you know, sounded on a Zoom call caused closed sales to money coming into the bank account, it just felt one step removed for me.

I, I don't really know why I have friends that don't feel like this. And, and if you want a whole career in tech selling software, you can make a lot of money and some pep guys love it. Like that's, it's awesome if you do love it. I'm not bashing on that as, but for me, it just felt one step removed from the money and now I, I feel like very connected to everything that comes into my bank account and, and comes through my p and l, if you will.

Um, and so like, it just feels. More exciting, and it also makes me care about that money a lot more, I think when I'm at home in my personal life, because I know what I did to earn the money. I sweated, I worked hard to earn that money and sometimes I never felt like that in, in sales. I was like, it just wasn't as connected. So anyways, I, I don't, I don't know if I'm making sense, but that's, that's how, that's definitely how I feel. 

Austin Gray: Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you. It's a, it's a fun game to play and it feels good to, to earn your money. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: So once again, I just wanna say congrats again on crossing the a hundred k. Thanks. Awesome. Where do you go from here?

Tyler Mumford: I think the biggest disconnect between people that follow me on, on Twitter and me and my brain is because I've kind of grown some following. I started. Tweeting in, in like January 1st, and, and so I've grown like 3000 followers in in less than three months. People like love this story, which is awesome and I appreciate everyone that loves this story, but I think people that start following me just randomly as I'm tweeting, they're like, oh, this guy's been doing it for a long time, so like, why isn't he scaling?

For me, I'm like, dude, I have never even seen what a spring and summer is like. I started in August of last year, so I started at the end of this season. I need to know what's possible, like demand wise throughout the spring summer. So that's really what's next. I mean, don't get me wrong, I want to to have some big weeks, some big months and start stacking some real things, but that's the goal is just to see where it can take me this spring summer towards the end of summer, I'm definitely going to think about like more. What does the future look like? Do I need to add a winter service? Do I need to do X, Y, Z, I have all those thoughts currently, but to be honest, I do not know what the opportunity is ahead of me. I know it's been good so far. I've worked hard and crossed a hundred k mostly through the winter, but I don't, I don't know that top end of what it could be.

And so that's what I'm, I'm focused on every day is just do chop wood, carry water, let's see what the top end of this stump grinding thing looks like. And I'll, I'll have plenty of time come September, October to reevaluate what I want to do, you know, in the future with this business. But for now, it's like, let's go push and see what it actually can be.

So that's what's next. It's just day in, day out, doing the same thing, seeing what it could be. I'll probably, I'll probably hire some help here and there, you know, maybe full-time W2 help or maybe just, you know, shoveling help here or there. I'm not quite sure yet, but yeah, we'll just, we'll just stay grinding. It'll legit legitimately stay grinding. 

Austin Gray: It's so cool to watch. You know, how many people could have answered that question of like. I'm just gonna like do what everybody else is chiming in and telling me to do. Like that's how I know you're unique and that's how I know you're gonna be successful because you've already made the decision in your mind and nobody else is convincing you to do otherwise. And I can tell that right now. So my question for you specifically, in your head, is there a specific revenue target number that you hit or is it a time that you're gonna fill this like solo owner operator role? 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, it's more of revenue goal for the year is what pushes me. And that number is 200k from Stump grinding. I felt like I did, you know, 75 in my first six months. So if I could do 200K in a calendar year, I was like, that would be pretty good, is how I felt. So it's more of, I think the hiring people and like the scaling in that sense will be more of a, a timeline thing after, after the summer or deeper into the summer.

If there gets to a point where I have too many jobs and I'm not gonna turn away jobs so that I will start just hiring on the fly then. But until I haven't hit that point yet. So that's a future, that's a future problem. I'm not gonna prepare for that problem until I get there, if that makes sense. So in my head it's more towards the end or after the summer we'll figure out what we want to do with like hiring and how we want to, we structure that. But my revenue goal that pushes me every day is 200K trying to get there. This in the calendar year, not. Total. I hit a hundred K since I started last August, but a lot of that was last year, so 200 K in 2025. 

Austin Gray: So I wanna be really specific with this question. You are currently playing owner operator, like mm-hmm doing absolutely everything. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: How long will you sit in that role specifically are, did you give yourself a 12 month timeline? Like, I'm going to do this August to August, yes. And then I'll make a change. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. That's in my head. It's in my head. It's like August, September of this year. And not, like I said, I'm not unwilling to not do everything in the sense, like, I'll hire Shovelers, I'll hire on big projects, I'll do some of those things. But in the day to day when I can handle everything currently, like my mindset is about a calendar year, I, I wanted to see what I could actually do. You know, I'm not prideful about it. Like I'll hire, I'll hire a bookkeeper, I'll hire things that I don't know how to do. But on the stuff I, I haven't felt, I've had busy days and I've felt stressed in certain weeks, but I haven't felt like a long-term, three months of like I am drowning or, or even a month of I am drowning.

Like I always have a hard week and then the next week kind of lightens up and then a hard week it lightens up. So like for me, yeah, it's about August, September where I'll reevaluate what this business actually is because I know I've given my all for a year. Okay. Like I'm seeing some really good opportunity to go scale this thing to another truck or another guy, and so I'll start replacing myself maybe sitting in the second truck and kind of going from there.

Austin Gray: How is your energy level right now from a scale of zero to 10? Zero being I'm dead tired, like can't go anymore, and 10 being, I'm as excited as I have ever been about the business. 

Tyler Mumford: Probably like a nine or 10. I, I, I mean, and yesterday I was like, I had 30,000 steps when I was done, it was tiring, but I woke up this morning and just popped outta bed and I was like, let's get it, like, let's go. I'm, I have a, I'm a high energy personality though. It takes a lot for me to not be at a a seven plus, but yeah, that's where I'm at. I'm sure that will wane like, but to be fair, like I've been doing this now for 7, 7, 8 months and I, it hasn't waned a ton, so I'm not, it's, that's the other thing. I think people on, certain people that, that comment on things are like, how could you like doing that?

And it's like, dude, I actually like. Don't dislike my day to day. If I dislike my day to day, I wouldn't be doing this. I'd figure out something, some other way to do it, to change it. So I liked it, but I do like it. So like I'm not miserable, I'm, I'm just working hard and having fun. Yeah, 

Austin Gray: Absolutely. You're either wired like this or you're not, and you're obviously wired like this, and I'm very similar to you. Like I love the physical activity, like it just gives me so much energy and I found that early on, like I would just feed off of that. Like if we had a big day, like I would just feed off of it. When I'm driving home, I'm like, I'm calling like three more people. I don't even care. Like I'm just gonna Google maps like property managers or builders. Like I'm cold calling 'cause I'm riding a high, you know? 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. I'll put on a. I'll put out a nice little 50 cent song on the way home too, just like pumps of sick music. I'm like, dude, this was the best day ever. I'm dancing in the truck. It's all tinted windows so you can't see me. You know what I mean? Like, we're moving. It's a great, like, it's, it's, it's just not that serious. Like it really is not, it's it's awesome. It's a great way of life and I'm blessed to, to have been able to built it and I'm, I'm happy every day, so. Yeah. You're exactly right.

Like, I mean, it's, it's, I think it is in my wiring a little bit and, and I wanna be careful with this conversation. 'cause I think some people are gonna listen to this and be like, oh man, this guy is a simple tin. He'll never, you know, scale I scaling has its time and place. I don't think it has its time in place in the first six months. I just don't, like, you cannot convince me otherwise. And I mean, scaling revenue Sure. But scaling everything else, you're, you're, you're, you're going way too fast in my opinion. 

Austin Gray: Oh my gosh. This is, it's just incredible. Like, I love your mindset. 

Tyler Mumford: Dude, real quick. I heard the demo guy, what's his name on your podcast that you just dropped this week? What was his name? A demo in Atlanta and Oregon?

Austin Gray: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kent Strick. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He, because I listen to podcasts while I grind, so I was listening to that yesterday and even him, like, he's running a big business, but he was like, yeah, I did most of the demo jobs for like the first year, year and a half with my guys. I was on every single job. And they need a crew for that type of job. That's the thing with mine is like, I actually don't need a crew of guys. It would be a waste to have a crew of guys at my job. Now, if I had a crew of guys doing multiple jobs for me at the same time, that's different. But for him, he was like, yeah, we have a crew and I'm on the crew and we, we run it like we do every job.

We did every job for the first year, year and a half. And I'm like, yes, exactly. Like, that's awesome. And now he's a few years down the road and I don't think he's, you know, ripping drywall all the time, but, I, I think success leaves clues and like the, in the, the best business owners that started it themselves, ets are this whole different thing that makes people feel like entrepreneurship is different.

Entrepreneurship and ETAI think are com are different things. You know what I mean? You're, you're not, I don't, when I started in August of last year, I had $0 in revenue and if I never did all of the work, I would've had $0 in revenue the next month and the next month after that. So you just have to do things that don't scale. And most of the guys that have really good companies, they'll tell you that first year or two, they were doing a lot of things that didn't scale. Uh, and then now they're, they're in a great spot where they're not doing all those things, but anyway. 

Austin Gray: I couldn't agree with you more. And what you're also doing is you're setting the culture, whether you know it, or whether, whether you don't or realize it or, or not right now.

Tyler Mumford: Mm-hmm. 

Austin Gray: Because whenever you go to hire people, you're going to end up attracting like-minded individuals. Eventually, and they're going to, whether they like you or not, they're going to at least respect you. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: Because you've been there and you've done that and you've bootstrapped something. And that's always been my mindset is like, I mean, it, it just goes back to the, the age old concept of like lead by doing like lead by action. And I'm just, I don't know, like I think we live in a world where so many people just talk about things or so many people, and I've said this on the podcast a million times, like, like you said, ETA is completely different and I'm not gonna go down that route. But so many people just want to play armchair quarterback and like live the four hour workweek lifestyle and run a business from a hammock.

And that's just simply not the case if you wanna start a local service business, like what you're doing is the same mindset tactics that I use. It's like, yeah, I just. Like I need to drive for a year. Right? Like I need to drive that at a minimum for a year. Yeah. Because when you're starting, it's like nobody else is gonna drive at the pace that you're gonna drive. I believe you can find people that can help you eventually. 

Tyler Mumford: Yes.

Austin Gray: And And I'm very thankful for the guys on my team. Like I have amazing guys on our team, and so guys, if y'all are listening to this, do, yeah, do not take this in the wrong way, but by going and driving for that first year, you end up finding those people who fit in with that same mindset. And then at that point when you've kind of figured the mindset out, you can ask for their help. And then what I'm experiencing right now is those people can help you take it to the next level.

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: So it seems like, and I'm just sharing from, from my experience right now, like at this point in my business, it's like I'm having to identify that we do have other drivers in the business.

Tyler Mumford: Yes. 

Austin Gray: And that I need to. I need to get out of their way. Right. And that's a hard thing for me. But in those early days, what you're doing right now I think is a, is something a lot of people skip over. And so, man, if I can just offer any encouragement, just keep going. Do what you're doing. I, I freaking love it. And it fires me up and like I feed off the energy. I love seeing your posts. 

Tyler Mumford: Thanks, dude. To, to just, I know, I know that we worked to time here, but to, to cover like one last thing That's good on my end. Okay, cool. Me too. I, I, the one thing that fires me up that you just said is going back to the early stages of hiring people and getting them to respect you. Respect, like is just not something that every people are not gonna walk in the door of my business and respect me instantly as this like, awesome boss. Like they just, they're just trying to get 20, they're $30 an hour. That's how they're gonna start. And that's totally fine. You go back to sports and I, I talk about this all the time.

If you're gonna be a captain of a team and I was, had the ability to be a captain for two years in college for like really good athletes around me. Like these are guys that are, are recruited to play this sport. So they're all good coming in the door, sometimes a little bit better than you maybe talent level. And they have to respect you as a captain. And the only way you earn that respect is anytime I ever got on anyone, they were. I mean, yeah, I had guys that I'm sure didn't like me. It's a big team, but they had knew that I would never get on someone for something that I didn't do myself. Like I, I would do that thing first, whether it's the workouts, whether it's whatever, whether it's lifting sessions, all of those things.

You, you do it yourself first before you ever can demand that respect from guys underneath you to do the same thing themselves. And so like that's, that's what you have to build early on is I am working really hard. I am comfortable with anyone coming in the door in the future. And one, me being able to teach 'em the skill, 'cause I've learned it myself through a lot of hours of doing it. Stump grinding is really niche. You can't just pull someone off the street and have 'em have stump grinding experience. Right? So, uh, being able to teach the skill first and then second, having them be able to respect you as someone that could run this business to keep paying them their paychecks. Like both of those things are earned, not given.

And you have to have to have to work really hard to earn those things. You cannot just jump to like what you said, where you're at now, where you have a bunch of guys that respect you and they're pushing the business to the next level. I am two to three bases behind that, where it's like I am just establishing the culture for me and then that a culture will go to my first hire and then hopefully he'll spread it to the next hires after that.

So I, I could, I, all I'm saying is I couldn't agree more. Like that's just a, it's a, it's a. Teaching point from life that it exists everywhere. So that like people just don't walk up to you and instantly respect you and, and, and they have to see what you're kind of built, how you're built before they, they give you that respect. And so that's, that's what I'm building here is, is hopefully a culture that will have some great guys and that respect me and that work really, really hard. But I'm not there yet. So all I can do is just keep, keep establishing the culture and learning how to teach this thing and, and do it really well.

Austin Gray: And you will, you, you, you will absolutely like those people will find you naturally.

Tyler Mumford: Totally. Yeah. 

Austin Gray: I'm gonna come back to the energy level question. So you said you're at a, at a nine, if not a 10 right now. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. I'm cruising. I'm, I'm, yeah. 

Austin Gray: I'm gonna check in with you in August and ask you that same question and I just ask that, that you're, that you're honest on the next episode.

Tyler Mumford: That's perfect 

Austin Gray: Because what I'm learning, there was a point, I'm not even gonna go there right now. 

Tyler Mumford: We'll check in. We'll, we'll talk about that on the next one. I like that. I'm like kind of your, you'll just keep checking in with me and then you'll have like a really direct experience to everything that I'm saying. 'cause I'm a year or two to the three behind you, you know what I mean? And so you'll just be able to echo and give me advice on every single stage. 'cause I'm sure in August I'll feel different energy levels. So yeah. I love this. This is great. 

Austin Gray: You may or may not, you may be like, dude, I'm at an 11 right now. Like my, my pedal to the floor bumping 50 cent to the job and from the job every single day. Yeah. Yep. And Lord, please forgive us on some of these words. Right? 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Yes. Yep.

Austin Gray:  I was thinking about that the other day. I'm like, man, 'cause I still love listening to rap music. Like when I work out, it makes me feel like. It kind of reminds me of the locker room vibes and all that stuff, and I'm like, some of this, some of these lyrics are trash right now. Oh, really bad. Really.

Tyler Mumford:  I'm, I am very aware. I don't, I constantly listen to rap music. I usually listen to it when I work out, and then every once in a while when I, like I said, I'm pumped after a job. Yeah, yeah. If you, if you stay on the lyrics too long, I'll be like, this is not great. Not great at all. But I, I don't know how to bring both of those sides of me to, because I am a, i, I, I do have a strong faith and I don't believe it, usually most of those words day to day. But every once in a while a song like that gets you pumped for a, a big squat rep or something like that.

Austin Gray: Yeah. I don't know what it is. It's like the beat. Yeah. It's like the beats I really, really like. And then all of a sudden you start listening to the words, you're like, crap man, this has gotta be bad going into my brain. Lord, please forgive me on this. So I don't know if any of you listening have ideas for how to just. I was thinking about this the other day. I was like, gimme better music. Like can I, can I tell, I don't know if I should go here or not, but you got it. I was like, I was like, Hey Siri, can you just please never play a Cardi B or Nicki Minaj song on any playlist? 

Tyler Mumford: Would se does Siri do something like that? 

Austin Gray: Oh, like right. I don't know, but I said it. It's hilarious. 

Tyler Mumford: That's, yeah, that's, yeah. You have to be careful with some of, most of my, my brain space for listening is podcasts. I don't really listen to music too much, but there's a time and place it, I think it just takes you back. For me, it's the songs that I liked when I was in sports and like those, I don't really listen to much new stuff. It's those songs that I like always go back to, and yeah, they're not necessarily great, but they bring you back to a certain time and place. 

Austin Gray: What position did you play in lacrosse?

Tyler Mumford: I played defense, so it was a long pole. And that's what I coach for, for BYUI coached the defense, so I'm the defense coordinator, and then I played in football. I played left tackle all, all through high school. Oh, easy. You really, I was huge. I was like, when I graduated, I was like 275 from, from high school, and the coach at BYU for lacrosse was like, Hey man, like you're a pretty good lacrosse player, but you're gonna need to, to, to lose some weight to come play at this level, you know, to, to run like we do. And so I, I dropped from 275 to like 205 when I came in as a freshman and 

Austin Gray: Oh, crap. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. Yeah. And then now I'm, I'm heavier than that. I'm like 230, 240 probably is where, where I, I sit right now, but yeah. Yeah. Anyways, so play both of those positions. 

Austin Gray: What was the biggest, what's the biggest high playing defense in lacrosse? Like what's the best moment in sport? 

Tyler Mumford: For me, I mean, scoring would be great. I never scored in college. I had a few assists though, which were awesome. Where you run the field, kind of push a fast break and you dish it to someone they, you know, they score and you get, you get pretty pumped about that. That's, that's probably like the best moment. Or, I mean, there's, it's pretty physical, so, you know, you, you throw a nice check every once in a while and there stick flies outta the hand. You call that a yard sale. 'cause there's sticks on the ground. It's for, for sale. So you call that a yard sale. They, that's pretty, pretty exciting. But defense, yeah, defense defensive guys. You get it. You played safety right?

Austin Gray:  I did. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tyler Mumford: You're just wire. I know you could pick a ball off and you could have an interception and do those things, but you're just wired a little different on defense. You're not trying to score all the time. You're just, you're just doing your job over there. And that's why I like it. That's why I like the defense side of the ball. 

Austin Gray: Yeah. I mean, I, I would way rather just absolutely annihilate somebody than, than have a, yeah. Than than get an interception. 

Tyler Mumford: Did you ever get an interception in college? 

Austin Gray: Yeah. 

Tyler Mumford: But how many? 

Austin Gray: I don't even remember. Like, I, I don't have a ton of, I don't have a ton of recollection. I had a bunch of concussions. People always ask me, they're like, who? There's like this weird, there's this people in sports. My dad's this way. He's like, yeah. I remember whenever I was a junior, we were playing this sport, you know, this team, and it, it was like three minutes, three minutes, 37 seconds left in the fourth quarter, and it was 17 to three. And I'm like, yeah, I don't remember one thing like that. I remember like a couple flashbacks in my head of it's got like some big hits and interceptions, things like that. But outside of that, I don't have much recollection. Could be due to concussions. I don't know. 

Tyler Mumford: I remember the locker rooms. I, I remember certain memories from like locker rooms and like different things. Actually more than I remember, like, plays on the field. Weird enough. I remember how games, like I remember games we won and lost kind of, yeah, I don't really remember like, plays in those games. I, I'm in the same way. 

Austin Gray: Yeah. I, I remember a lot of the lock, like pre-games, stuff like that. Like there's nothing better than that's pre-game.

Tyler Mumford: Dude. I mean, that's still why, to be honest, part of the reason I coach is just like, I'm not playing, but being in those locker rooms pretty, it is just fun. You just get amped, like it's just awesome. The, the, those feelings that everyone has, it's, it's really hard to recreate anywhere else. There's things that mirror it a little bit and you could feel it a little bit, but I, I don't think anything's quite the same.

Austin Gray: No, nothing, nothing is, and I mean, especially from a professional standpoint, right? Like the, this. The sweaty like service type business, doing exactly what we're talking about. This podcast is like the closest I've, I've gotten to it, but yeah, still doesn't 

Tyler Mumford: A hundred percent. Like I still get the butterflies the night before. Like a big job or, and the morning of every, yeah, like I, I, there's certain jobs where there's like a complication here or something, you know, is gonna be like, I don't know exactly how to do that piece, but I think I can get it done. Like, I'll still get a little bit of butterflies. That feels a little bit pre-game ish. It's not the same, but it's a little bit and yeah, but not, not, not anything to the same extent. But look at, that's just washed up athletes. Just chat. 

Austin Gray: It's all good though. Like no fun to off, it's fun to talk sports. 'cause like, it's been a big, like, at least from my story, like I couldn't find anything professionally that was like anywhere close to, 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah.

Austin Gray: Sort of that, and I'm just an adrenaline junkie. That's really all it is. And yeah, do it. Doing this kind of stuff, like there's something about the machines as well that adds a little bit of like hazard or like something could go wrong. So there's, you have to be on point and you have to be focused whenever you're unloading that machine onto somebody's pavement or whatever, it's like if you do drop that head like on something, you are gonna. You could do some damage. 

Tyler Mumford: Oh, yeah. Or you could do damage to the machine, which, you know, uh, it depends how you think, but that could be even worse for you. So you, you know, so, yeah, a hundred percent it's, it's, there is some, like I said, there's pieces that I feel here and there that I'm like, oh, I kind of feel in some of those same feelings, but it's never, it's never quite the same.

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Tyler Mumford: The reason I don't talk about that stuff a ton is just, I, I guess on social media, I, when I put out things on social media, I'm just trying to put out experiences that are relatable generally, and it's not, that's not all relatable, but people that follow me are interested in small business. So that's what they're, you know, not all of them were, were ex-athletes. Some of them were, and that's awesome, but like, I don't, I. Also don't hold any of the, there's some polarizing tweets that I've seen where it's like the best business owners were athletes.

And I agree. Like I think, uh, in the sense that I think athletes can make good business owners, but I know guys that I played lacrosse with that I, I wouldn't personally want them to own a business that I worked for. Uh, you know what I mean? Like, you, you get all, all, you get everything in all, all, all ways of life. So I'm not extreme on like, you have to be an athlete to like, be successful or any of that stuff either. You know, I, I think it helped me, but anyway. 

Austin Gray: Totally, totally. And the reality is we're all just on our own path, right?

Tyler Mumford: Like, yeah. 

Austin Gray: Like we're all living our own life and we all have to figure out our own way. And for whatever reason, guys like you, and I like this kind of stuff. And I, I, I know that there are other people out there who feel the same way. I would also, I mean, a lot of the best, if you're talking like purely like financial, like profit driven minded people, I know it's like I had, I just have too much a, d, d and I have too much high energy because I am a former athlete to like sit behind a computer like eight hours and analyze this stuff. I'm like, it's just never gonna be me. And so that's why I've tried to lean into this, at least from the podcast perspective, like, I just wanna help promote guys like you.

It's like if we can tell your story, I know that there are other guys out there like us who are probably in their twenties, they played college sports or they played high school sports. They've tried these professional careers where you sit behind a computer and your high energy, you, you can't sit still for long enough. Like you gotta go do something. 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah. 

Austin Gray: And so that was really one of the premises when I starting the podcast. I'm like, man, if we can just tell stories of people like Tyler and showcase that this is an, this is a valid career path and this is an outlet for some of that energy, then I think we're doing our part in, in the world. And I kinda like you said, you know, your faith is strong and I think about that consistently. It's like, all right, there has to be something more than just the money, right? Yes, it is a scorecard, but like what are we actually doing with our time and why are we doing it? 

Tyler Mumford: Yep. Well, and we talked about this, I think me and you talked about this maybe on the first episode, like I was making good money before, so there is something that is not about the money here in my story that like goes to show that there there is more to the career you choose. You know what I mean? Yeah. Don't get me wrong. Like I'm doing it to replace that income that I had beforehand. Go make good money of course, but do it in a way that I enjoy it more day to day is kind of my journey. And yeah, I think you do a great job on the podcast doing that. I, I I, I, I've mentioned to you that like, I've listened.

I mean that, that DM is funny in on X. It's, it's from January of 24 before I ever even found the stump grinding idea, saying like, dude, I love your podcast. I think it's awesome. It was the early days of your podcast, but you were talking. You didn't really know it, but you were talking to me at the time and the guys that you had on were talking to me and it was, it was great. So I think you do a good job of that. And, you know, hopefully someone's listening to this conversation that in a year from now, they're, you know, they're, they're moving in the right direction and they're on your podcast as well, you know, like you're just pumped because, you know, you find the next person that's doing what I'm doing and it's nothing too special. But they're, they're doing it and they're, they're, they're excited about it. 

Austin Gray: I, I love what you said there about like, I dunno, 'cause I dunno about you. I just feel like I was like a, like I'm just a regular guy, right? I think you're just a regular guy and you had a really good work ethic. And so like I know there's gotta be other people out there like that, who your story is literally gonna speak to. And yeah, I'm thankful for you, man. I'm thankful for all the energy and effort that you are putting into this because I know it's gonna have an impact on somebody else and. I don't know. Whenever. Whenever that person, if you're that person listening to this right now, Tyler's about low ego guy as I know, and he is willing to help, so.

Tyler Mumford: Yep. 

Austin Gray: I just ask that you reach out and, and ask questions and I don't know, 

Tyler Mumford: You saw, you saw my, you saw Michael Compton on, on Twitter. You, you were going back and forth with him about the color of his machine and all that stuff. Yeah. That, that guy's ripping jobs right now. And, and I was able to help him out do that. And he's, he's, he's doing a great job. He's early stages month one, but I think he's done two to four grand a revenue month, one. Brand new business, just buying it. So there's a few guys like that. So yeah, reach out, happy to help. Like I've, I I'm, I'll give as much time as I can, but to be honest, go listen to the first episode from our podcast that will cover a lot of the basics. This will cover some other basics. Reach out with any other, like, niche questions you have. I have some, a, a few things that I can help with there. And, and yeah, happy to help. So, 

Austin Gray: What else do you want to, what else do you wanna leave listeners with right now?

Tyler Mumford: Man, that's all I got. Follow me @StumpGuyTy I, I'm just tweeting out what I'm doing every day, so it's not too much of a mystery. I just tweet about my jobs and different things I'm doing. And then, yeah, outside of that, I, I dunno, hopefully I, I said something that will push you to do, do what you wanna do. 'cause if you're listening to this, you probably already wanna do it. Just go do the thing that you're thinking about it, it will work out and yeah, I, I, I'm a firm believer in that, whether it's demo inside of a house that we were talking about, whether it's whatever, it doesn't matter whether you're land clearing, you're fire mitigation, it does not matter. Just go do the thing and, and it will, it will work. 

Austin Gray: Cool. Yeah, and don't hesitate to reach out to either of us. I think you guys have seen how excited I get whenever I see other people doing the same thing. I genuinely, and Tyler, I hope you feel this, like I genuinely want you to succeed and nothing is gonna make me happier than that. I do want to send you a gift for hitting a hundred k just as a nice little celebration. So could you send me your logo after this? 

Tyler Mumford: Yeah, yeah, dude, absolutely. I need to get some merch by the way. Like that's, we talk about, I, I'm gonna have a tweet someday of all the things that you know, I've done without actually like doing certain things that you think you need to do when you're a business owner. I don't even have merch yet. I'm wearing a Seager hat and a Carhartt sweatshirt, so I need to get some merch and once I do, I will send you some sick logo. Stump guy merch. I think I'm gonna merch it. Stump guy with my logo. But yeah. Anyways, 

Austin Gray:  I think you're gonna elect the gift. 

Tyler Mumford: Dude. I'm stoked. Yeah, I'll, I'll send you my address. That sounds awesome. And yes, behind the scenes, Austin is about, as real as it gets, Austin texts me all the time saying he's stoked about, you know, whatever I'm doing so Austin wants people to succeed. He's the freaking man and he, he does what he says he does on the podcast. So. 

Austin Gray: Oh, thanks man. I appreciate you. Um, absolutely. I, I do, I genuinely want you to succeed for no other reason than just to see somebody else, like seeing through what they said they were gonna do and working outside. Like, it's such a, such a gift to be able to work outside. Like, and, and especially for you, you live in Utah. I live in Colorado. Like I gotta pinch myself sometimes. I see those views that you're posting. It's pretty incredible. So amazing. 

Tyler Mumford: It's the, yeah, I mean, it's, it's the best. It really is. Dude, one of these pods too. I need to come on and interview you about all the things you're doing because I know you're doing like a bunch of different things and you're, you're probably gonna be doing some new things this summer from some of the things that I'm seeing on tweets about bids and different things or hearing on some podcasts. So when you're ready to talk about it, I'll just, we'll, we'll post it on your platform, but I'll just interview you and we'll, we'll run through your business because I think people want to hear that. I get bits and pieces from your pod, but I think there's some awesome stuff happening, so 

Austin Gray: I'd be happy to do that if, if you're down I, I'd appreciate that. And I'll, I'll do that. 

Tyler Mumford: That'd be fun. I think that'd be awesome for your listeners. Yeah, I'd prepare and have it, have it, have it dialed and we redo, we do all of this, but with you on the hot seat, it'd be fun. 

Austin Gray: We are gonna have some, some fun stuff coming in the pipe next week, so thank you. I'll keep you in, in tune offline. Mention, mention an opportunity down there in Austin as well. 

Tyler Mumford: Oh, yeah, yeah. 

Austin Gray: So, yeah. I'll, I'll fill you in offline here, but send me your logo. Okay. And man, just keep, keep grinding, like we'll keep going. That's such a beautiful brand too, to to own that term. 

Tyler Mumford: Keep grinding. Keep grinding. Exactly. Dude. It's all mine dude. It's all mine. I need to trademark it or something. You do? No. We'll, we'll keep going. So yeah dude, I appreciate it and yeah, we'll, we'll chat offline, so. 

Austin Gray: Okay, real quick before we finish up, where can people find you? 

Tyler Mumford: Find me on Twitter @StumpGuyTy, you can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Tyler Mumford is my full name. Those are my only two places right now. Hopefully there'll be some other stuff coming in the future, but those are, those are the main two for now. 

Austin Gray: Fantastic. Alright, well listeners, I hope you have enjoyed this episode. It's a privilege to be able to interview Tyler for the second time here. Um, he is somebody, as you know by now, who goes and he's just doing it. That's what he's doing. He's not talking about it, he's just doing it. And so I encourage you if you are, I. Interested in starting your own local service business? Go follow Tyler. He's sharing a ton of value on X and specifically in stumps, like I think, I think anybody in any market could start a stump grinding business. Am I? Am I right? 

Tyler Mumford: Yes, absolutely. 

Austin Gray: Okay. And you've also offered, you told me this before, but you put all your thoughts into like a little startup playbook for stump grinding, correct? 

Tyler Mumford: I have, yep. We're currently in the works of, yeah, I don't wanna go too long on this, but yes, there's a playbook and some, some things that to, to help you scale, get a stump grinding business off the ground. Just all the basic stuff that we're not gonna cover here in a podcast. We're not gonna go over the four brands of machines and how to start with renting it and then, you know, own it. Although the really, really niche stuff that's just kind of boring on a podcast, it's all in there. We're, we're probably gonna transfer that into like a little, maybe like a school group of some sort, because we already have three or four guys that are, are successful doing it from my playbook, which is awesome.

So we're just gonna get those guys in there and have like a, a little powwow of guys doing it and getting better at, at stump grinding. So anyways, that's, that's coming down the pipe, but yeah, absolutely. If you want that, reach out to me. I'll, I'll send it direct. I don't post about it, uh, publicly. 'cause I, when we talked about this, I don't like people in Utah buying it personally. So I, I, I send it to people outta state and if you're in state, you can go kick rocks and in a nice way you can. 

Austin Gray: I love it. Yeah. Yep. I love it, man. All right, cool. So yeah, reach out to Tyler for that. You can reach out to him directly on X like we mentioned. And then listeners, if you are enjoying this podcast just like building a local service business, five star reviews are super important. So if you're getting value outta these things, I would appreciate it greatly. If you could just take 30 seconds and leave us a quick five star review on Spotify and Apple. And then if you listen to your podcast on YouTube, go like and subscribe to the channel. It is youtube.com/at the owner op, and you'll get notified whenever we drop our weekly episodes. Every week we publish an episode with another local service business owner on Fridays where we talk all about starting and growing local service-based businesses. 

On Saturdays, we send a newsletter summarizing the main action points that we talked about in the episode. So if you haven't signed up for the newsletter yet, go to ownrops.com/newsletter. That's ownrops.com/newsletter. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you guys next week. Don't forget, work hard, do your best. Never settle for less.

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